M.V. Do you think that sometimes your work is sometimes, almost, its
effect is precisely in the offence it causes? In the publicity it gets,
which then other people, debate it whether they actually agree with you
or not, but at very least they debate it.
C.A.Well yeah, yeah, the Guardian piece, when I did the page for
the Guardian you know, a famous art historian said “We’ve
just had a debate at dinner, a dinner party last night, as to whether
you’ve sold out to the establishment or not” and I said, “My god, you
know I can’t afford.... I have to live”. Artists are material beings okay,
that’s why we created the Artists’ Union. We didn’t create the Artists’
Union to promote a political ideal. We created the Artists’ Union because
we wanted to improve the conditions for artists in terms of applications,
grants, all that stuff. So artists are material beings and have to earn
a living and I don’t blame any artist for trying to do that and I’ll try
to support them all the time. I forget what the question is. So do you...
M.V. Yes tell me about America and that change in going to America.
I mean obviously you’ve had lots of contact over the years with American
culture but...
C.A.Well, I’ve shown in New York for 20 years.
M.V. And you’ve found it an exciting place presumably?
C.A. I
love American culture. I don’t sneer at American culture and I think it’s
incredibly subversive in many ways and talk about that in, for example'
the ‘Wizard of Oz’. How it’s subversive in a number of ways, so, but one
of the material reasons I went to USA was because, as you know I was involved
in the GLC. I did the visual arts advising. I did the Labour party’s visual
arts’ policy, percent for art, and all that stuff, which is again about
material conditions for artists. Even though I don’t particularly want
to do public works of art myself. When Neil Kinnock didn’t win the election,
I just thought, “Well a lot of the GLC groups had been hanging on by the
skin of their teeth hoping that the Labour Party would get in and a lot
of their cultural workers were trying” and I just couldn’t face this.
I couldn’t hold it together any more and I just thought, “I’ve got to
go”, and I had two offers from America on my desk and had done for a couple
of years. So I just phoned them up and said, “Look I think I’m gonna come”
so it was partly material, you know that kind of pressure, despair really,
after that long period of Thatcher and then John Major. It just wasn’t....
M.V. When you get to Davis, are you not having to do a lot? I mean
it’s a very privileged position in some ways, but are you having to do
a lot of administration?
C.A.No. I did when I first went because I took the chair of the department.
I chaired the department and that was very heavy for two years, but because
I had exhibitions lined up it didn’t stop the flow of production. I don’t
know how but it didn’t, and then when I’d really, when I’d really done
what I thought I should as chair, you know implemented various things
then. I’m just a professor so that’s great. That’s forty days a year.
Forty days teaching a year.
M.V. And you can be around the world.
C.A.And you know, I’m expected to do my research and do, you know. I’ve
got to have a good exhibition record.
M.V. So you’re finding it productive?
C.A.Oh yeah, incredibly supportive and very positive too. I mean, it
has its problems. Obviously in California you can’t avoid looking
at Hollywood so that’s kind of a new strand. I’ve never looked at popular
culture in that way before. So it’s from ‘Wuthering Heights’ to the ‘Wizard
of Oz’ in three difficult lessons.
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